In Argument with a Narendra Modi Supporter

This article as well has to begin with a disclaimer. I love my country a lot, but the love for my country does not make me hate any other. Also for me patriotism is not the prerogative of the supporters of Narendra Modi or the men in Armed Forces - any Indian working honestly is a great contributor to this nation and needs to be applauded. Because of this reason I am not yet giving up my Indian citizenship and moving to Pakistan. Also for the record Congress Party has not offered me an election ticket.

In these times of elections and the ensuing acute polarization amongst the supporters of different ideologies and supporters, I also have had my discussions and debates with different groups. The most difficult ones have been the supporter of Narendra Modi, not because of their ideology, but because of their resorting to name calling at the drop of a hat.

I recently had another hot debate with one of the Modi supporters. What amazed me was how anguished and disadvantageous an upper caste Hindu can feel in this country; and at the same time call the fears and apprehensions of the ‘minority’ Muslim community and the millions of other lower caste Hindus who have been discriminated against for centuries, ill-founded.

Till few years back, I used to curse the government for giving reservations to the backward castes and taking away the rights of the ‘meritorious and deserving’ upper caste students. I also held Muslims responsible for their own fate and underdevelopment, as they are the ones refusing to educate their children. But in doing so, I was very conveniently ignoring the privileges that come along by my being born as an “Upper Caste Hindu”. For sure my father did not have enough money and my schooling was completed with the help of loans. Despite this I never had to negotiate the terms of my very existence. No body raised questions about my affiliation and loyalty for this country. I never had to sit on a floor in presence of another upper caste Hindu and my brother did not have to worry about being beaten up, should he decided to ride a Mare in his Marriage procession.

Well during the debate I was being accused of being “indoctrinated” and forming my opinion only on the basis of a particular region. But I challenge the thinking city-dwellers to come out of their comfort zones and venture anywhere 30 kilometers from Delhi and see the reality themselves. When Shekhar Gupta says that ‘India is not secular because its minorities say so; but India is secular because it's major community wants it so’ (as quoted by my dissenter),  I could not agree more. However, this is not something to be taken for granted. The majority community is doing themselves a favour by doing so. Just lift your heads and look across the borders in the East and the West and one would understand the privilege one has being the part of a secularist and pluralistic society based on democratic values.

Whether one likes it or not, in any secular and democratic country, the main burden of upholding the democratic and secular values lie with the majority community with a population of 80.5 percent in the country. So if 13.5 percent of Muslims feel themselves to be vulnerable and apprehensive, the responsibility lies with us to integrate them more in the mainstream.

Before sharing the arguments, I just want to recall an incident that happened in the heart of Delhi at the India Gate couple of years ago. I was having ice-cream with a friend at Rajpath – the very road where the grand Republic Day parade takes place. A guy with beard, donning a white kurta pyjama and Muslim skull cap stopped his scooter and asked pointing to the lit up Rashtrapati Bhawan (President’s House) at Raisina Hill, “Can we go up there?” We replied in unison – “Yes, of course.” He replied, this time pointing to his dress, “No, No I am asking can WE go.” I felt embarrassed and ashamed that over six decades after the independence of this secular, democratic and republic a country, a citizen in still conscious of the way he or she looks. Is not it a collective failure of us as a country? Or can we just turn a blind eye and keep marching towards our goal to become a “Superpower”. And is this goal achievable, as 13.5 percent of its population continues to remain marginalized and feels insecure?

Here is my email conversation with a Modi Supporter –  

Modi Supporter: You do not like Modi is it?

Me: No

Modi Supporter: Who do you like then? Just asking. If you do not wanna share it’s ok.

Me: I am not a Rahul Gandhi supporter. But in the given scenario I might go with him rather than somebody like Modi.

Modi Supporter : Ritu on a serious note can I ask u briefly why do you have antipathy for Modi? It is not that I am trying to convert you for him.

Me: My problem is his communal image. And the language he uses when it comes to minority. And even if one calls it (the apprehensions of the Muslims) wrong, the heavy burden of upholding democratic and secular values lie with the majority community.

If the minority is feeling threatened by him, there is something wrong with the system that we would be upholding him as the messiah for India

Modi Supporter : You know Ritu, did u read one of my posts about this?

Me : Which one?

Modi Supporter : Modi is NOT communal. I had said.

Me: nopes I did not. What did it say?

Modi Supporter : Wait lemme dig it out for u. ‘India is not secular because its minorities say so; but India is secular because it's major community wants it so!!’ Thus spoke Shekhar Gupta on NDTV. Let me tell you today and plz take it from with all sincerity at my command. Modi is NOT communal in outlook. He has been painted like that.

Me : With all due respect to your views, if the Chief Minister of a state do not want communal riots to take place in his state there won’t be any.  

Modi Supporter : Ritu you have clearly a rigid view.

Me: Had Rajiv Gandhi instead of passing a statement like Newton's third law (after the Godhra incident, instead of going after the perpetrators of the heinous crime, Modi was also busy teaching the Newton’s Third Law – that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.), had said that nothing should happen, do you think likes of Jagdish Tytler would have the guts to go ahead and do it (the Sikh killings in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi’s assassination by her Sikh Bodyguards in 1984?)

Modi Supporter : so i won’t try to convince you.

Me: Feelings are mutual in this regard.

Modi Supporter : So how does that make the Congress any better?

Me : I am not talking about a party here

Modi Supporter : And to be very very frank with u

Me : I am talking about an individual called Narendra Modi. Had Rajiv Gandhi being alive, I would have been against him as well.

Modi Supporter : it is my considered view that all this communal card is played by vested interests. The call of today is progress people play this card to divert attention from failings on other fronts.

Me: But if I have to choose between secularism or progress I will go for the former

Modi Supporter: And if you ask me my honest opinion I do not see any reason why Muslims shall call themselves a minority!

Good luck to u

Me: Till sometime back I also used to think the same why Muslims call themselves minority?

Modi Supporter : You do not compare number of Hindus versus numbers of Muslims overall level, if u compare them by the way they are distributed in specific areas they are in majority. Take for example Rampur.

Me: But being minority is not a question of numbers. Look around, why we did not have a single Muslim Army Chief till now? Even 2 percent Sikhs have better statistics. My parents would be fine if I marry anybody as long as it is not a Muslim.

Modi Supporter : Ritu your bias is rather indoctrinated.

Me: Indoctrinated by whom?

Modi Supporter : To be honest with you I found your preference for secularism over development as a non-argument and illogical.

Me : And again sir your views are fashioned by experience and mine by indoctrination?

Modi Supporter : I have no idea. But for sure you do not have logic on your side

Me : Why? To value freedom and secularism over progress is illogical?

Modi Supporter : Yes they are . What you refer to as secularism is a very narrow and malfide definition. But I am sorry I can prove it to you that you cannot actually call Muslims in India a minority community. And i will prove it to by logic. That your postulation is faulty

Me: The feeling of fear is always not logical. (It is all about perception. Just as a Nation is an ‘imaginary community’ a concept borrowed from the West, the question of fear and dignity is all about perception. If a Muslim in the country after over 60 years feel marginalized even because of his/her perception, it is a sorry state.)

Modi Supporter : Sorry. Feeling of fear has to have a basis. This is an imagined fear

Me: We are born with only fear of falling and loud sounds, all the rest are induced by the society.Modi Supporter : Now you are talking intangible. Give me facts to prove your hypothesis that Muslims in India is a minority community. Fear is a rather intangible reason.

Me: Because they are the ones pitted against the majority community. They are the ones being marginalised especially post-partition.

Modi Supporter : Today i being a Hindu can be afraid of stepping into Rampur for example where every 9 out 10 people are Muslims.

Me: And I am not saying that it is all the doing of the majority. The going away from each other happened from both the communities.

Come on. Come on. Do not talk generalities. Please be factual.

Me: Which part of it was fiction? Partition or both communities having mutual distrust for each other?

Modi Supporter: Were they denied opportunity to educate their children in normal schools? Were they denied jobs? Is it because of religion or because of lack of qualifications and to answer your question regarding NO Muslim Chief.

Me: But the problem is that we do not accept that we get an unsaid advantage by the virtue of being born in the majority community. The problem with Muslims was that all their elites moved to Pakistan after partition.

Modi Supporter : Do you know what is the percentage Muslims who opt for a career in the Army?

Me: Yeah I agree they do not opt for Army and what is the reason?

Modi Supporter: I got an UNFAIR disadvantage of being from the so called majority and upper caste community.

Me: May be you can enlighten me.

Modi Supporter : Yes I can enlighten you. They simply do NOT want to join.

Me: That is why I am asking why won’t they want to join?

Modi Supporter : Ask them. Nobody stops them. It is a volunteer army. Trust me when I say this the Army does NOT discriminate. I can say this with conviction.  And if a Muslim officer has not reached the top job it is purely due to mathematics and service factors such as age and seniority

Me: Democracy is not just arithmetic. That is where inclusiveness comes to the front. One needs to make an effort to engage those who do not want to engage

Modi Supporter : The army does not go to peoples’ Mamas and say pls send your Son to the Army.

Me: I am not asking Army to do it. But the government which is an elected body needs to make that effort.

Modi Supporter : This minority story is all BULLSHIT used by people to keep our nation down. Look I personally do not have anything to do with Modi. In fact I find him crude and obnoxious. But we do not need a goody goody gumdrops chocolate cream sweety pie. We need a tough chap, who has the guts to lead this nation. And frankly all this secular stuff is not gonna get us anywhere.

Me: You remind me of a friend, who came to Germany.... Her statement was, "You know Hitler killed some jews. Otherwise the roads and other infrastructure he built for Germany was immaculate."

Modi Supporter : But the fact is that you have not provided me with one tangible fact to support your assertions. Listen the story about Jews is like comparing apples to oranges.

Me: Because for you fear based on religion is not tangible. According to you the problems of Muslims is theirs and not the Ccountry’s. I am not comparing. But what I am saying is you want infrastructure I want basic dignity for people.

Modi Supporter : Sorry this fear psychosis is deliberately created by people with a hidden anti-national agenda. Your sense of indignity is perceived and self-assumed. (Of course Muslims needed somebody to tell them the meaning of 3,000 people belonging to their own community mercilessly in a ‘secular’ country.)

Me : Dignity is always perceived. It is not a tangible commodity that you could buy off the shelf in the market.

Modi Supporter : Yes that is why it is a specious argument in Nation-building.

Me : If Muslims patriotism is doubted it is a matter of perception. If we consider ourselves as a Nation it is again a perception.

Modi Supporter : That is funny. Because to the best of my knowledge this sense of doubt is expressed and voiced by the Muslims themselves. I have not heard a single majority community leader of consequence repeat consequence doubt it. Do not talk about the fringe elements.

Me : May be we come from two different worlds. Because where I come from it is the Hindus/Sikhs who raise questions about the belongingness of Muslims to India. I am not talking about fringe elements. Even if Modi did not consider him responsible for Gujarat Riots, what business he had to say that even if a puppy comes under car you feel bad (in reference to the Gujarat Riots). Is it befitting a future PM?

Modi Supporter : What is befitting then for a future PM and his in laws to rob our nation? Forget it. I think it is beyond you.

A Tale of Two Cities divided by "Border"

The two cities speak the same language and have had a shared history. But fate threw them on different sides of the border. For Narva and Ivangorod – small towns in Estonia and Russia respectively- the history has been strongly tied to each other as both were part of the erstwhile Soviet Empire. But after Soviet disintegration in 1991 they have been going through different narratives spawned by their respective governments and still maintain sanity in their approach towards each other.

The river border between the two towns.

Another view of the border

 

It was for the first time that I crossed a border by foot. Crossing the bridge between Ivangorod and Narva immediately brought the analogy of the border between India and Pakistan (which I have never been able to cross over) in my mind; or if we narrow it down further – that of Indian Occupied Kashmir and Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. Having cross border ties between families, the two cities have not cut down the people to people contact. The socio-economic cooperation is still going strong. This is in complete contrary to India and Pakistan cross border cooperation and beneficial to both sides, the two countries driven by their respective narratives do not want to budge at all. Here is an insight into the cross border cooperation happening in Narva and Ivangorod; and what it takes to be pragmatic in cross border cooperation.

The bridge linking the two towns

Both the towns were destroyed during the World War II and only three people were left alive. Both the towns were re-developed. They got separated in 1991 when Estonia – one of the Baltic States – left the USSR. Families got divided. So much so, Narva still has more than 80 percent of Russian speakers and only 4 percent speak Estonian language. The number of Estonian passport holders in the city is around 46 percent, those with Russian passport form 36 percent of the population and the rest are stateless (There are many who have chosen not to accept any citizenship. To become Estonian citizen one need to pass a language test, a daunting task for many of the old people living in the city.).

The two countries continue to engage in war of words, with Russia alleging mistreatment of Russian ethnics at the hands of the Estonian government, Estonia portray the USSR as the occupier of their country. Choosing language as the basis of citizenship stems from Estonia's quest to differentiate itself from its larger neighbour. The collective memory of Estonia which is still a nationalising state, is shaped to consider Russia as an enemy. Despite the gulf between the two countries, cooperation at social level continues between two towns.

 In this backdrop, are set the relations between Ivangorod and Narva. For border they have a river. But the imposing security paraphernalia like Indo-Pak border is conspicuous by its absence. People have relatives on the other side and can easily visit them. Before 2000, they did not require visa to go to the other side. Things became a bit difficult after Estonia joined the European Union, but the flow of people to and fro is pretty strong.

At social level and Municipal level they still cooperate. Speaking of this the Mayor of Ivangorod, Shahrova Tatyana said: “The cross border cooperation has been intensive and uninterrupted.” She was also born in Narva and her parents moved to Ivangorod after 1991. Gestures like celebrating the New Year together and one side giving big gifts to the first baby on the other side. Both sides are rebuilding their historical fortresses on both sides to boost tourism. There are people who live on one side of the border and go to work on the other side.

The complex administrative structure on the Russian side makes cooperation a bit difficult as border security is the federal subject and border cooperation falls under the ambit of municipal authorities. 

Cut to India-Pakistan border – one of the most highly controlled borders in the world having very non-liberalised visa policy. While I can understand the animosity between the two countries, I cannot fathom the ugly display of jingoism by the two sides. Shouting at the top of their voices, lifting their feet above their heads and virtually abusing each other- I really do not comprehend what the two sides portray to the thousands of tourists thronging the stands to witness the spectacle. Cross border trade and travel are highly restricted. The two countries barter 21 items, mainly vegetables and fruit across the Line of Control (the de-facto border between the Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir and the Indian Kashmir).